Keeping an Open Mind in a Closed World
In this three-part interview series, I (Ashley) sat down with Devon and Drew of the Beardy & the Beast podcast to talk about aspects of the creative world, as they pertain to our very different lives and perspectives. In this portion of the interview, we discuss if it is still possible to change peoples minds, or if society is too far gone. One of us also connects the theme of the conversation to sorority videos that we have been watching on social media...
Full disclosure, this was originally intended to be a podcast but I had mic issues. I have edited our conversation ever-so-slightly to improve readability.
Ashley: In our last article, we discussed gatekeeping and the idea of preserving communities and hobby groups. It's an interesting read, go back and check that out! What I'd like to talk to you guys about now, is if you think it's possible at this point in society… Do you think it's possible for opinions to still be changed?
Drew: Yes.
Devon: Yeah.
Ashley: Well, that was easy. Okay. Next topic.
Bing CoPilot’s vision of “something that everyone likes.”
Drew: So, here's the thing. Someone in the conversation needs to be open to new ideas and has to enter into the conversation in good faith. And the thing is you need to realize is that [conversation] is not combat. It's not a win-lose thing. It's the [bringing] together of ideas. So… If someone comes up to me and they give me a couple of reasons why I should like pancakes over waffles. I'm going to consider them even though they're incredibly wrong, and they're probably bad people because of it –
Devon: True.
Drew: But I'm going to consider that and see what points they have and you know, weigh them versus the pros and cons of waffles on my side. The trouble right now is everybody's gone into this very divisive “It's my team or your team” mentality, and it's [everywhere] right now. We could say politics, we could say TV shows.
Devon: Movies are definitely doing it.
Drew: I mean, it's always been that way with say video games and like, I mean, the motorbikes and the brand of motorbike puts you on a team—
Ashley: The only team you should be on as a motorcyclist is team speed! Sorry, Drew, I totally interrupted you for that stupid line. Okay. Please continue. Sorry.
Drew: I mean, you're correct.
Devon: I think there are a few things you have to keep in mind when you talk about changing minds. Yes, things are definitely getting polarized, but there are a few things to [remember]. One: It's polarized because communities are being isolated. Like, the way the internet is used, it's very easy to just put yourself in a bubble.
To expand on our [last conversation] when we discussed gatekeeping. You can create as small of a community as you want and ignore everything else around it. That shared culture aspect is a big reason why it feels like you can't change opinions. If people are only getting their news from one source, for example, they're not going to know any better. I think the big thing is being able to recognize if someone is coming to you in good faith or not, with whatever the topic is, because that makes the difference. And you’ve got to remember, it might not be you changing their mind. It could be them changing yours. You can only have that with a good faith conversation.
CoPilot’s interpretation of “something no one likes.” :( Sorry frog guy.
Ashley: I think one of the kind of pratfalls of, I mean, having a conversation with somebody where you're actually trying to persuade them and actually trying to change their mind instead of talking at them, is that so many people also want an immediate response or an immediate mind change. Sometimes though, you're just planting the seeds of a different perspective and it takes a while for that to grow. I have one example, which is... Well, it's kind of embarrassing. You're allowed to make fun of me. That is completely fine.
Devon: We will.
Ashley: Yeah, I know you will.
Drew: That's a blank check right there.
Ashley: So, I'm going to preface by saying I've loosely started my next novel. Best title ever, if I may say. Red Bull and Emo Tears. But, it's about two teenage girls in early 2000s. And I realized [that] I don't remember how young people speak. So that put me down a weird rabbit hole. Long story short, I ended up listening to videos about sorority houses and Greek culture in Alabama, at the Alabama State University. And I just, first of all: Their houses are incredible. Oh my God. But, I think back to when I was a teenager, and how I was totally one of those assholes that would have called them superficial idiots. I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with any of that culture. And I would have just thought that they were all stupid and I was better than them because I was a cranky, angsty little teenager. But now, watching those videos as an adult, I’m like, oh my God, these young women are – I mean, yes, people put a front on for social media and stuff – but they're thriving. They're making friends. Yeah, some of it's superficial, but they're having fun. And I know influencers act on camera, but these young women, they work so hard!
To participate in Rush Week, to get into a sorority, all while still doing their studies is so much work! I couldn't believe it. They’re all basically doing a full-time job on top of their studies to get into these sororities, and I know that sounds silly as I say it out loud, but yeah, I just, I've apparently as of the week, I have gained a ton of respect for all of the sorority people in the US. So, yeah, I didn't see that coming. But hey, my mind was changed!
Devon: That perfectly fits with what I was saying about looking into [topics] in good faith. When you were [an] angsty teenager, you wouldn't have looked at the sororities in good faith. So, your mind [wasn’t] going to be changed. Now when you're going back and doing research, you are looking at it in good faith and are picking up things from it.
Ashley: Sorry, I need to pause here and put my words into thoughts. I’m tired, having this conversation at night, I've I had mic problems for like an hour… It's been a long day. So please bear with me while I get my thoughts together here…
Drew: Such a difficult day sitting around watching the Real Housewives.
Devon: She was sitting around watching Alabama sorority girls.
Ashley: Man, that sounds so gay.
Drew: She was sitting around watching Alabama sorority girls all day… That is similar to your nighttime Google searches, Devon!
Ashley: Wait, stop! I have my thoughts back. Don't interrupt me. I'll lose my thoughts. My thoughts, they're fleeting! What I wanted to say is it kind of relates back to the earlier gatekeeping thing because with the sororities, for example. Yes, there are a lot of people that are going to be rejected because they don't fit in. You know, maybe because of their appearance or personalities – I know, I sure as hell would not have gotten into one of those sororities, I mean, now because I'm hella old, but also back then because that was not my, not my place. But anyway, just because you don't fit in somewhere, it doesn't mean the place you don't fit into is a bad place. And that's something that I've really started to realize way too late in my life.
How AI thinks I spend my days.
Drew: Well, that's very true. I think it's magnified with the sorority subject matter, because part of the reason why they gate-keep so hard and keep people out is because of A: Limited space. And B: There, there's this multiplicative energy that they [rely on], because they do a lot of fundraising, they do a lot of projects, they support their team, and they support their school. And if you have someone that's significantly lower energy, that can't keep up with that, like it'll bring down the team, right?
Ashley: Yeah, absolutely.
Drew: Yeah, so they have got to find people who are [similar] and who can return the amount of energy while still being able to, you know, deal with, you know, difficult post-secondary life. Especially when you're fresh out on your own, it's hard out there.
Ashley: That's a really good way to put it. You need to find people whose energy you match. If you're looking to join a sports team, or a club, or get into some sort of artistic thing, and if you don't find that right away, I mean, keep trying. And you don't have to try to change the groups to be what you want them to be. And you don't have to change their minds. You might just have to start your own thing or just keep looking until you find what you're after.
“Devon” as a sorority girl (or Sailor Scout).
Drew: And that's the thing. The fact that you have a different point of view on that culture now, really exemplifies like your ability to grow and learn and enter into these conversations in good faith without having to try to force your own opinion down the throat of others. If you kind of think about, [in your novel], you're talking about two emo girls in the early 2000s or whatever – probably very similar to how I was as a teen. It was like, “This is the music genre that I like and I only like people who like this. And I don't like rap and I don't like country.” And nowadays, it's more like… I’m the only straight guy who listens to Bjork. I listen to rock, I listen to rap, I listen to K-pop, I listen to like everything under the sun. And there is actually something valid and interesting to this thing that I'm observing. [Whether] it is someone else's opinion, new subject matter, or, you know, even foods.
Devon: It's like, no, that’s not my style, but I can appreciate what's out there and there are still things that you can discuss with. Like, you know, we were talking about some hip hop versus rock lyrics and noticing the craft in it. Again, because we're not angsty teenagers where it's like, “Oh, this music just sucks,” we can be open to it, learn, and have new experiences. And yeah, sometimes my mind changes. I listen to some K-Pop now, thanks to Drew.
Drew: One of us. One of us…
Ashley: I can’t get into [K-Pop], I mean, I've tried. But to summarize, it sounds like the world would be a better place and we'd all have fewer problems if everybody was more sure of themselves – more confident in themselves – and channeled their inner Alabama sorority girl. And that includes you too, Devon.
Devon & Drew
The bio that they submitted simply said, "Drew and Devon: Hosts of Beardy and the Beast, Assholes." Because that is only partially relevant to Haus of Fog though, it should be noted that they are also into music (creating and listening to), gaming, and could be described as nerds in the 2000s-sense, and not the weird, modern, obsessed with Disney-kind of nerdery.
Instagram: @atbeardy
ASHLEY GOOD
Ashley Good is the brains behind Haus of Fog. After directing the Foggy Isle Film Festival, which shone a spotlight on dark/horror indie shorts for the past five years, she decided to launch Haus of Fog to better reach her niche of fellow film weirdos. You can learn more about her work at ashleygood.ca.
Instagram: @ashleyegood | Youtube: @ashleyegood